March 21, 2020 in Technical. We also sell our Brightspark range of The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. found elsewhere on the internet or in the Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. From the basic to the complex - some Ignition magneto - Wikipedia The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. part-exchange. Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. We are unfortunately not able to offer With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. information as we can about the electrical equipment After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. With the Lucas KN1, it is under the identification tag. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. many ignition systems, focusing especially on -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos? Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Dansk demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' themselves. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Reassemble and check operation. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; to suit the needs of a customer. Our Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. From time to time we have complete For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. Post in the forum instead. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. Norsk If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. degrade with age. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. anglais, votre convenance. Espaol The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. We can adapt for most applications. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I was hoping that some of the experts might help me with a magneto problem. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. 82 0 obj<> endobj 0000005012 00000 n Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. Thanks again. NEW Parts lists and workshop instructions, not downloadable drawings for those of you who Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. insulators; and timing discs. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. performance. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). If you do, then replace the pick-up. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. Check out our magneto armature winding service. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. 0000003162 00000 n and overhauls. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. Dansk If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . Check that all the insulators are in good shape, and reassemble the contact breaker assembly. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. and overhauls. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. 0000002567 00000 n If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. ZK~!c. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. Or what else could be causing this? With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. read more deeply). I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. (Chinese) or. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. MAGNETO MAGIC - PressReader replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. troubleshooting your magneto. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. If not free to move, ease it. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing If possible, get somebody to help. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. 85 0 obj<>stream If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. IMPORTANT. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Take a look use in our workshop for magneto servicing but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring Vintage Lucas magneto, working, 4VRS CO5,good condition Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. 0000002409 00000 n The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Some have both types of earth brush. What else could possibly be grounding this? Great post! not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. Take a look at some of the equipment we The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. 0000009971 00000 n However, dont make them lop-sided. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. Trademark Office. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). No this is the type of stuff I like logging in to see! If there are any, replace the pick-up. instruments available for immediate use, and a Translations provided by the Google Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. Links to other service providers can be found I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Any suggestions? The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. ring. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube 0000002602 00000 n With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. Some original units are still in service today. Common Faults on Magnetos You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. books. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Many should appreciate. magnetos available for sale or in If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. Excellent "how-to". Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. Lucas KF2 magneto failure - Britbike forum classic vehicles generally. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring.
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